Curse

October Jade · Nov 18, 2007, 06:21 AM // 06:21

As was mentioned on the Pet Evolutions thread further down the page, I have not yet pinpointed how to make an animal take the Elder path. This has been a side project of mine for over two years (even predating the comprehensive Epinephrine/Jenosavel treatise), and the answer still eludes me.

I keep a notebook to track all the variables in testing...the count now stands at over a hundred animals leveled from 5 to 15 in failure. Though I didn't pay much attention to the gold that accumulated in the process, I'd estimate it at about two platinum per runthrough. Now here's the point of this thread: I'll give you half of it if you find the answer. A hundred platinum for discerning the method that has caused me so much mental anguish.

I have reluctantly accepted that it requires a fair amount of luck (which I clearly lack), but I'm still clinging to the hope that someone out there knows a secret or two. Reaching Dire or Hearty is incredibly formulaic; it doesn't make sense to me that Elder could be such a whimsical occurrence.

Earth · Nov 18, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

If your pet evolves into an Aggressive *pet*, and after that it deals low damage compared to it's damage received ratio, it will evolve into an Elder pet.

If your pet evolves into a Playful *pet*, and after that it deals high damage compared to it's damage received ratio, it will evolve into and Elder pet.

If you have an Aggressive pet and make it tank against something that deals high damage, but with a fairly low beast mastery which causes it to deal less damage, it will evolve into an Elder at level 15.

With a playful pet I, unfortunately, have no good idea of how to make it evolve into an Elder... Except making it tank something 5 levels below it with high beast mastery, so that it does alot of damage while not receiving alot. This is probably very slow though, but it's the only thing I can think of.

Note that both are very hard to do, with the Aggressive pet way a bit easier.

Hope that helped :P

lennymon · Nov 18, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

I've made 5 in a row. Just train it to level 12 aggressive on minotaurs outside of Ice Tooth Caves using a 'standard' pet training bar. Something along the lines of :
[skill]Enraged Lunge[/skill][skill]Predator's Pounce[/skill][skill]Predatory Bond[/skill][skill]Call of Protection[/skill][skill]Call of Haste[/skill][skill]Symbiotic Bond[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill] and either Whirling Defense or Throw Dirt.
Then take 0 in beast mastery and drag him around and keep ressing him. I've found Tombs BP to be good for phase 2.

October Jade · Nov 18, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

If your pet evolves into an Aggressive *pet*, and after that it deals low damage compared to it's damage received ratio, it will evolve into an Elder pet.
If your pet evolves into a Playful *pet*, and after that it deals high damage compared to it's damage received ratio, it will evolve into and Elder pet.

This is pretty commonly accepted as fact. It's even on the wiki. The problem lies in the execution. When, where, how...those are the kinds of suggestions I'm looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Just train it to level 12 aggressive on minotaurs outside of Ice Tooth Caves using a 'standard' pet training bar.

Level 12, eh? Most often a pet that becomes Aggressive at 11 will remain that way even after immediately transitioning to the non-BM playstyle. I can't say that I see the logic in pursuing the Dire route for an additional level, but I guess it's worth a shot. Gimme a few hours to test it; then I'll post again.

p.s. Here's my Aggressive/Dire setup. No need for Comfort; it never dies.
[skill]Enraged Lunge[/skill][skill]Poisonous Bite[/skill][skill]Call of Haste[/skill][skill]Otyugh's Cry[/skill][skill]Predatory Bond[/skill][skill]Symbiotic Bond[/skill][skill]Call of Protection[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill]

lennymon · Nov 18, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I don't say level 12 because of any theory or anything, just that I've always used mino's till 12th then moved to gyala for my dire training. As such when I wanted elder, I just changed up my second program and most likely 11th will work as well. I just haven't tested it. Never been a fan of poisonous bit myself, but anything would work there is my guess. I just use pred because its cheap and relatively spammable.

Earth · Nov 18, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Even if you don't see the logic, if a pet doesn't evolve at lvl 11 I don't think it can evolve into an elder. I, atleast have never managed it.

Chthon · Nov 18, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I basically followed lennymon's advice and got an elder rainbow phoenix on my first attempt awhile ago.

For levels 5 to 12 I used:
16 BM, 13 Exp, Rest WS
[skill]enraged lunge[/skill][skill]brutal strike[/skill]

[skill]Otyugh's Cry[/skill][skill]Call of Protection[/skill][skill]comfort animal[/skill][skill]charm animal[/skill][skill]Troll Unguent[/skill]
Plus
[skill]Life Barrier[/skill][skill]life bond[/skill][skill]Balthazar's Spirit[/skill][skill]Blessed Signet[/skill][skill]mantra of inscriptions[/skill][skill]shield of absorption[/skill]
on the minos outside Ice Tooth, the minos at Elona Reach, and the bugs outside Yohlon Haven. (In retrospect, the bugs were not worth it at all.)

(I swapped [skill]symbiotic bond[/skill] for [skill]troll unguent[/skill] after I realized that, for some odd reason, symbiotic bond always applied before the monk's bonds and CoP, regardless of their relative locations in the stack. So the pet was taking 0 damage, and the monk was taking 0 damage, but I was taking damage through the symbiotic bond, even though the monk's bonds and CoP had a lot more room to negate damage down to zero.)

For 12 to 15, I played normally. I think I did Cathedral of flames as a splinter/volley/broadhead and a bit of barrage/pet in tombs. I think I had 6 or 8 in BM to get a slightly better rez.

Pet turned aggressive at 11 and elder at 15.

October Jade · Nov 19, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Okay, finished another cycle. It took longer to write this up than anticipated; football kinda got in the way. Still no desired results though.

The Poisonous Bite is there because I usually fight the Snow Wurms outside Boreal Station, and I need a degen condition to prevent them from regaining health underground. They are a bunch of pushovers, really...the xp accumulates more quickly than any other place I've found.

I trained with the full BM bar up to level 12 as prescribed, then did a few ToPK runs to finish up (went to level 16 just to be sure). It remains Aggressive, as did the last half dozen animals.

I guess we can conclude that your Anvil Rock method is different/better than mine. Looks like I'll be doing all the testing there from now on.

@Chthon: From what I read, the HoM phoenixes were irregular until recently. The Dire prefix was allegedly unattainable, so people ended up with Elders instead.

edit: spelling

lennymon · Nov 19, 2007, 07:50 AM // 07:50

I actually tested to level 10 on ice tooth minos today, finishing up in gyala (carefully and with slight modifications to the build). He got agressive at level 11, then I trained him on level 30 HM snow worms. He died a LOT. I ressed at least once every two worms so he could keep taking damage. Then I brought him along on a Sacnoth Valley vanquish run. Voila.
I've had VERY odd results in the past starting straight off on stuff over 10 levels higher than the pet and found through repeated testing it results in retarded (as in messed up/late) or no evolution. I've also had wierd results with counting degen as pet 'damage', that's why I don't trust it for training.
I have made since the latest rainbow phoenix fix 2 dires, and 3 Elders (on purpose). It's fine now. This is a result of today.

Chthon · Nov 19, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

@Chthon: From what I read, the HoM phoenixes were irregular until recently. The Dire prefix was allegedly unattainable, so people ended up with Elders instead.

I did mine after they were patched.

October Jade · Nov 21, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Thanks for the further information; I appreciate it.

Unfortunately, I'm at my parents' house until the weekend due to holiday stuff, so I don't have access to GW. Hopefully on Sunday I can at last put an end to this pursuit and make handouts where necessary. It's somewhat depressing knowing that all this time it was a matter of "Ur doin it wrong."

Chthon · Nov 21, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

It's somewhat depressing knowing that all this time it was a matter of "Ur doin it wrong."

At least it's better than "sorry, it can't be done."

MBP · Nov 21, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

well if you like alligators and/or you're lazy...there is a group of elder 15s outside umbral grotto ready to be tamed.

daky · Nov 23, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Having problems getting mine elder -_- when you say you lvl it to 12 I'm assuming that you stop the process right when it lvls. then flip the procedure.

lennymon · Nov 23, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

11-12 seems fine, but yeah you just want as much as possible of the time after first evolution to have the pet getting mauled and you dealing the damage. It seems silly but do the first evolution on the level 10-15s, anything without degen or spike damage. Level 10 minotaurs outside of ice tooth in northern shivers or the level 14 mergoyle waveriders outside of gates of kryta are both ideal. Ive been able to get proper evolution also by starting on those and moving to the outcasts at level 10 to speed it up. The ones which are fighting the luxon guards just inside gyala hatchery explorable (use the luxons as meat shields, only send in the pet when there is a clear advantage on 'your side'). If you use the 'speed up' area, dont bring symbiotic bond as you may just kill yourself if things go pear shaped.

daky · Nov 23, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Just spent the last hour to hour and a half leveling a new pet. Joined a basic ss/lb farm group at Remains of Shalahja. What I got was a pet with no evolution. It appears that this is an easy and very effective/quick way to get an elder.

Chthon · Nov 23, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by daky

Just spent the last hour to hour and a half leveling a new pet. Joined a basic ss/lb farm group at Remains of Shalahja. What I got was a pet with no evolution. It appears that this is an easy and very effective/quick way to get an elder.

Except it doesn't say "elder," which is kinda a turn-off for some people.

This method of getting an unevolved pet is well-known.